Should Capitalism be outgrown?

A place to bring a contemplative / Dharmic perspective and opinions to current events, politics and economics.
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fwiw
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Re: Should Capitalism be outgrown?

Post by fwiw »

DNS wrote: Fri Mar 12, 2021 6:17 pm Regarding economic sanctions and boycotts, I'm opposed to those. That is not capitalism. Capitalism works on the free-market system. Sanctions are more like totalitarian, communist, fascist principles.
Of course, intentionally starving entire countries is probably one of the worst crimes anyone can do. There is no way to justify that under Buddhist principles. But here's the thing: nobody has claimed that anyone else here supports it.

What has been shown however is that the following CIA-engineered talking point, which has sparkled this branch of the conversation, is a complete fallacy and should be abandoned once and for all by its proponents:
DNS wrote: Mon Mar 08, 2021 3:40 pm It should be obvious for any Buddhist that such as system (socialism) can only lead to mass poverty and suffering
1. Because first of all this argument assumes that any criticism of Capitalism is the equivalent of an argument in favor of socialism

2. More importantly, because the "mass poverty and suffering" we can see for example in Cuba has been intentionally engineered so that people would blame the local government for the results of an international stranglehold:
fwiw wrote: Fri Mar 12, 2021 1:08 pm every possible means should be undertaken promptly to weaken the economic life of Cuba. If such a policy is adopted, it should be the result of a positive decision which would call forth a line of action which, while as adroit and inconspicuous as possible, makes the greatest inroads in denying money and supplies to Cuba, to decrease monetary and real wages, to bring about hunger, desperation and overthrow of government.

DNS wrote: Fri Mar 12, 2021 6:29 pm Just found some interesting statistics.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americans_in_Cuba

About 1.3 million Cubans live in the U.S. Cuba's population is about 11.1 million.
That proportion is a whopping 11.7%

About 2,500 Americans live in Cuba. The population of the U.S. is about 328.2 million.
That proportion is a miniscule 0.000007%

And that 2,500 number of Americans living in Cuba is including Americans of Cuban descent.
1. Here you can see the results of "a line of action which, while as adroit and inconspicuous as possible, makes the greatest inroads in denying money and supplies to Cuba, to decrease monetary and real wages, to bring about hunger, desperation and overthrow of government."

2. The same observation can be made for a very large number of "Capitalist" nations. Is that also an indictment of Capitalism, the same way it is assumed elsewhere to be an indictment of alternatives to Capitalism?

DNS wrote: Sat Mar 13, 2021 9:22 pm The good news though is that since Raul Castro took over, they are slowly instituting some free market reforms and people are starting to open some businesses and improving their quality of life.
The free market has one very significant downside: scarce resources are reserved only for the rich who can afford them. Anybody who needs such resources just to stay alive (for example a leukemia patient) will have them denied and will die as a result of it. Hence society needs some form of protection against these inhumane aspects of the free market, lest the free market becomes an instrument of tyranny. There are countless examples in USA of people dying because they couldn't afford to pay for their treatment. This doesn't happen in countries that have rejected the pure, undalturated free market model when it comes to healthcare.
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DNS
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Re: Should Capitalism be outgrown?

Post by DNS »

fwiw wrote: Sun Mar 14, 2021 3:55 am
DNS wrote: Fri Mar 12, 2021 6:17 pm Regarding economic sanctions and boycotts, I'm opposed to those. That is not capitalism. Capitalism works on the free-market system. Sanctions are more like totalitarian, communist, fascist principles.
Of course, intentionally starving entire countries is probably one of the worst crimes anyone can do. There is no way to justify that under Buddhist principles. But here's the thing: nobody has claimed that anyone else here supports it.
Correct, I was just expressing my opinion against boycotts and sanctions, not accusing anyone of supporting that. Glad we can agree on some things.
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Re: Should Capitalism be outgrown?

Post by DNS »

Bill Maher, liberal Democrat and Biden supporter, made some good comments about capitalism and against communism in last night's show.



Especially around 5:15 mark to the end.
Zenny
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Re: Should Capitalism be outgrown?

Post by Zenny »

To see buddhists who supposedly believe in the five precepts.
Who supposedly denounce greed,delusion and fear.
Who believe in right livelihood and right speech AND then defend capitalism in all its greed and immorality is religious hypocrisy and apologetics of the highest order.
Seems the ruling class ideology of slavery and greed is stronger than buddhist practice.
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Re: Should Capitalism be outgrown?

Post by DNS »

The Buddha did not speak out against capitalism. Yes, the term was not around then, but it was basically the same system of private property rights, mercantilism, trade, even banks and bankers. The Buddha had numerous capitalist benefactors and he never condemned their livelihoods.

Socialism and communism do not work, they just produce mass poverty. Capitalism may not be perfect, but has the least poverty.
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Re: Should Capitalism be outgrown?

Post by Zenny »

DNS wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 3:42 pm The Buddha did not speak out against capitalism. Yes, the term was not around then, but it was basically the same system of private property rights, mercantilism, trade, even banks and bankers. The Buddha had numerous capitalist benefactors and he never condemned their livelihoods.

Socialism and communism do not work, they just produce mass poverty. Capitalism may not be perfect, but has the least poverty.
Nonsense. The crony capitalism,wars,colonialism and oppression of workers is against the 5 precepts,right livelihood,right speech etc. What planet are you living on?
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Re: Should Capitalism be outgrown?

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Zenny wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 4:15 pm Nonsense. The crony capitalism,wars,colonialism and oppression of workers is against the 5 precepts,right livelihood,right speech etc. What planet are you living on?
When have I supported crony capitalism? I have never supported crony capitalism. That is government corporate welfare, not capitalism.
Zenny
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Re: Should Capitalism be outgrown?

Post by Zenny »

DNS wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 4:21 pm
Zenny wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 4:15 pm Nonsense. The crony capitalism,wars,colonialism and oppression of workers is against the 5 precepts,right livelihood,right speech etc. What planet are you living on?
When have I supported crony capitalism? I have never supported crony capitalism. That is government corporate welfare, not capitalism.
All state capitalism is crony. Look at history.
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