Corona virus outbreak

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Miorita
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Re: Corona virus outbreak

Post by Miorita »

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An image closer to reality so that we could descend into the lab:

Image

My microbiology professor, dr. Amarin, has worked for CDC.

First impression: the cups at the end of the project-like extensions indicate how the virus takes in matter/nutrients. That's how it feeds.

Energy sucking "form of life", a parasite. It invades the host and it keeps sucking it of resources until it's empty/dead.

"I have the cup, gimme!" So it absorbs the fluids. Then immunity kicks in, killer cells, etc.

How does one stop the request?

Or one could say, we don't know the purpose of the proteins, the cups are for attaching to the cell's wall. Remember a virus is smaller than a cell,

not even a cell?
Om Tare Tuttare Ture Soha - they say she helps remove obstacles
Relax! Do your best!
Bundokji
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Re: Corona virus outbreak

Post by Bundokji »

A reasonable analysis of the current hysteria:
Coronavirus Becomes Latest Excuse for Mass Hysteria

We go from hysteria to hysteria.

And even that’s not quite accurate. We now endure multiple hysterias at once.

The latest, of course, is COVID-19, better known as the coronavirus. In addition to China, where the virus originated, major cities in Italy and Japan are in lockdown mode, and Japan has closed all its schools.

In the United States, where, as of this writing, six people–most, if not all, of whom were already ill—have died as of Monday, the states of Washington (where all six deaths occurred) and Florida and the city of San Francisco have declared states of emergency.

Many international and domestic business conferences have been canceled, including:

—The Google News Initiative Summit in late April in Sunnyvale, California.

—The Microsoft MVP Global Summit March 15-20 in Bellevue and Redmond, Washington (now to be an online-only event).

—The Facebook Global Marketing Summit, March 9-12 in San Francisco.

—The Mobile World Congress Barcelona, billed as “the largest mobile event in the world.”

Amazon has asked its 798,000 employees to stop all nonessential travel, both domestic and international, immediately.

Meanwhile, according to Time magazine, “U.S. stocks lost nearly 12% and $3.5 trillion was erased for U.S.-listed stocks. It was the worst week for stocks since the financial crisis in October of 2008.”

And the “yield on the 10-year Treasury note hit a record intraday low [last] Tuesday as coronavirus rocked risk markets and investors flooded into safe-havens,” according to Markets Insider.

If these trends continue, the world economy is likely to enter a recession, if not a depression.

Unless the coronavirus becomes a worldwide mass killer, it will be fair to say that the hysteria over coronavirus will cause much more suffering than the virus.

All this leads to three questions:

1. Why aren’t we seeing a sober, measured reaction to the virus?

2. What has caused this hysteria?

3. Why are so many people in panic mode?

Answer to question 1: Because people have lost all perspective.

This flu, like SARS and swine flu before it, has been given a name. Every year, tens of thousands of people die of that season’s generic flu.

In the 2017-2018 flu season, in America alone, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, about 61,000 people died of the flu. But because that flu didn’t have a special name, no one other than individuals close to those who died from the flu knows or cares about any no-name flu.

In 2003, there was hysteria over SARS, which also originated in China, and which killed a total of 774 people in 29 countries.

In 2009, the World Health Organization, which should be renamed the World Hysteria Organization, raised the worldwide pandemic alert level of the swine flu (a variant of the H1N1 virus) to Phase 6, the highest alert level.

According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, the swine flu infected approximately 61 million Americans, of whom 12,269 died. To put that into perspective, also according to the agency, the next season’s flu, that of 2010-2011, killed about 37,000 Americans; in 2012-2013, 43,000 died of the flu; and as noted, in 2017-2018, 61,000 died (the agency’s upper figure was 95,000).

Answer to question 2: Overwhelmingly because of the news media. The news media have been breathlessly reporting virtually every new diagnosis of the coronavirus 24/7.

Typical of media reporting is this from Canada’s most widely read newspaper, The Globe and Mail: “COVID-19 spreads so rapidly that one Harvard researcher has warned that 40 to 70% of the world’s adults will be infected.”

But they never bother to tell you that being “infected” is, for almost everyone, not remotely life-threatening.

Answer to question 3: This one is perplexing.

I am not certain why people panic so easily. Perhaps it is built into human nature. Perhaps it is the power of the media to influence people. Perhaps it is because life is so easy in the modern world that people have come to expect a life without deadly illness or premature death from any cause. Perhaps it is because of the lack of perspective noted above.

There are things about which people should be panicked.

For example, the contempt for America and capitalism taught to a generation of young Americans from elementary school through college is worthy of panic. The extreme levels of economy-collapsing debt we are irresponsibly piling onto the backs of future generations to maintain “entitlements” is worthy of panic.

So is the premature sexualization of children—encouraging them to choose their own gender and taking 5-year-olds to public libraries for “Drag Queen Story Hour.”

But such things hardly register with most Americans.

I feel awful for kids today. They are relentlessly told that global warming poses an “existential threat” to life on earth. They are relentlessly told that President Donald Trump poses an “existential threat to America”—the words used, for example, a few weeks ago by Frank Rich in New York magazine, and used by the “moderate” Michael Bloomberg repeatedly in his speeches.

And now they are told their families had better stock up on toilet paper because only God knows when they will be unable to leave their homes.

It was a Democratic president who told Americans, during World War II no less, that “we have nothing to fear but fear itself.” He is a liberal idol, in part for saying that.

That is more or less exactly what Trump has been saying. Yet he’s an “existential threat” to our country.
https://www.dailysignal.com/2020/03/03/ ... -hysteria/
'Too much knowledge leads to scepticism. Early devotees are the likeliest apostates, as early sinners are senile saints.' – Will Durant.
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lyndon taylor
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Re: Corona virus outbreak

Post by lyndon taylor »

What a crock of shit, this is a very dangerous virus, 20 times more deadly than the flu,
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk.

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/
Bundokji
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Re: Corona virus outbreak

Post by Bundokji »

lyndon taylor wrote: Fri Mar 06, 2020 8:30 pm What a crock of shit, this is a very dangerous virus, 20 times more deadly than the flu,
I think the point in the article about it " being named" is important. Just think of how many mild cases are not counted and recognized by those infected as just a "flu" then the mortality rate would look much less that what they are counting.
'Too much knowledge leads to scepticism. Early devotees are the likeliest apostates, as early sinners are senile saints.' – Will Durant.
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lyndon taylor
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Re: Corona virus outbreak

Post by lyndon taylor »

you must think medical professionals and scientists are idiots!!
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk.

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/
Bundokji
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Re: Corona virus outbreak

Post by Bundokji »

lyndon taylor wrote: Fri Mar 06, 2020 9:36 pm you must think medical professionals and scientists are idiots!!
In my mind, academic qualifications and intelligence are two different things. In fact, i have reasons to believe that most of them would score low on existential intelligence and high on other types. In other words, they have mental abilities, but not necessarily skilled in using them in a way that is conducive to human well-being, and that manifests itself in the way they produce data and convey it.

Do you think they spent yeas of their lives in academic institutions because they deeply care about people?
'Too much knowledge leads to scepticism. Early devotees are the likeliest apostates, as early sinners are senile saints.' – Will Durant.
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DNS
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Re: Corona virus outbreak

Post by DNS »

Image

Why are so many hoarding toilet paper? There is no toilet paper available at many groceries, membership clubs, etc. I went to two different Sam's Clubs and there was none. No bottled water, which is more understandable, but what's the deal about stocking up on toilet paper? Is there some global conspiracy to stop making it?
Miorita
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Re: Corona virus outbreak

Post by Miorita »

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Your article is manipulative.
I suffer from having a uterus, therefore hysteria. I don't want Donald Trump. I don't want him.
He only sells dishwashers and is lazy. He never went further with his academics. And he goes only by winging answers. I don't want him! Period!

And I'm not gonna go crazy with the flow. That's for those who have no inner references/values and jump into whatever life brings to them. I cannot afford being that blind.
Good night!
Om Tare Tuttare Ture Soha - they say she helps remove obstacles
Relax! Do your best!
Nemo
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Re: Corona virus outbreak

Post by Nemo »

Bundokji wrote: Fri Mar 06, 2020 8:56 pm
lyndon taylor wrote: Fri Mar 06, 2020 8:30 pm What a crock of shit, this is a very dangerous virus, 20 times more deadly than the flu,
I think the point in the article about it " being named" is important. Just think of how many mild cases are not counted and recognized by those infected as just a "flu" then the mortality rate would look much less that what they are counting.
The great thing about forums is 2 months from now the incredibly dumb shit you write will still be here. America with it's amazing plan of letting it burn through the general populace is probably going to see 3.4% of infected cases die once medical facilities are overwhelmed. 34 times more than the average flu season. You have clearly never lived in a place with endemic deadly infectious diseases. This will be a very sad learning curve for you.
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mikenz66
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Re: Corona virus outbreak

Post by mikenz66 »

Bundokji wrote: Fri Mar 06, 2020 9:54 pm
lyndon taylor wrote: Fri Mar 06, 2020 9:36 pm you must think medical professionals and scientists are idiots!!
In my mind, academic qualifications and intelligence are two different things. In fact, i have reasons to believe that most of them would score low on existential intelligence and high on other types. In other words, they have mental abilities, but not necessarily skilled in using them in a way that is conducive to human well-being, and that manifests itself in the way they produce data and convey it.

Do you think they spent yeas of their lives in academic institutions because they deeply care about people?
Have you actually spent time with scientists that work in this area? While I admit that some scientists can seem a little different, dismissing not only experts in disease, but all academics, as not caring about people seems like a rather unwarranted generalization.

It's unclear to me why attitudes like this --- that people who have dedicated their lives to studying something cannot be trusted --- are so pervasive.

In my opinion it's a rather sad situation that feeds into the hands of populist despots.

:heart:
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mikenz66
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Re: Corona virus outbreak

Post by mikenz66 »

Another sad thing is that if the actions currently being taken on the advice of experts is successful in keeping the deaths from covid-19 to a level below seasonal flu then the armchair critics will tell us that there was no need to do anything in the first place. :cry:

I'm not sure what they would come up with if millions of people did die. And I'm in no hurry to find out...

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mikenz66
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Re: Corona virus outbreak

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DNS
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Re: Corona virus outbreak

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mikenz66 wrote: Sat Mar 07, 2020 6:42 am At least there is still some humour out there:
People Panic-Buying Toilet Paper Are Most Likely To Die From Coronavirus, New Research Confirms .

:tongue:
Mike
:D :thumb:
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DNS
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Re: Corona virus outbreak

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mikenz66 wrote: Sat Mar 07, 2020 6:34 am Another sad thing is that if the actions currently being taken on the advice of experts is successful in keeping the deaths from covid-19 to a level below seasonal flu then the armchair critics will tell us that there was no need to do anything in the first place. :cry:
True.
I'm not sure what they would come up with if millions of people did die. And I'm in no hurry to find out...
Most likely conspiracy theories. I can imagine a few that would probably come up if it results in hundreds of thousands or millions of fatalities . . .
Bundokji
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Re: Corona virus outbreak

Post by Bundokji »

Nemo wrote: Sat Mar 07, 2020 4:36 am The great thing about forums is 2 months from now the incredibly dumb shit you write will still be here. America with it's amazing plan of letting it burn through the general populace is probably going to see 3.4% of infected cases die once medical facilities are overwhelmed. 34 times more than the average flu season. You have clearly never lived in a place with endemic deadly infectious diseases. This will be a very sad learning curve for you.
And this line of reasoning contributes to making the whole thing self-fulfilling and excessive.Just imagine yourself a decision maker, your actions will be measured against a certain outcome, that is:

If you take extremely overcautious measures, no one would blame you. If fact, you would probably be praised as a virtuous leader for not taking a chance. If things turn bad and you still take excessive measures, then your political career would be ruined and remembered as a careless leader.

When it comes to media, click counts is a measure of success. If headlines containing the key words "coronoavirus" are generating many clicks, then this is what the public want to hear, so more focus on the topic including regular updates on the number of cases and deaths is warranted, which would make the public more worry, which would push decision makers not to take a chance.

If you find the above line of reasoning reasonable (which i think you do), then you might see why the current measures are excessive.
'Too much knowledge leads to scepticism. Early devotees are the likeliest apostates, as early sinners are senile saints.' – Will Durant.
Nemo
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Re: Corona virus outbreak

Post by Nemo »

Bundokji wrote: Sat Mar 07, 2020 8:06 am
Nemo wrote: Sat Mar 07, 2020 4:36 am The great thing about forums is 2 months from now the incredibly dumb shit you write will still be here. America with it's amazing plan of letting it burn through the general populace is probably going to see 3.4% of infected cases die once medical facilities are overwhelmed. 34 times more than the average flu season. You have clearly never lived in a place with endemic deadly infectious diseases. This will be a very sad learning curve for you.
And this line of reasoning contributes to making the whole thing self-fulfilling and excessive.Just imagine yourself a decision maker, your actions will be measured against a certain outcome, that is:

If you take extremely overcautious measures, no one would blame you. If fact, you would probably be praised as a virtuous leader for not taking a chance. If things turn bad and you still take excessive measures, then your political career would be ruined and remembered as a careless leader.

When it comes to media, click counts is a measure of success. If headlines containing the key words "coronoavirus" are generating many clicks, then this is what the public want to hear, so more focus on the topic including regular updates on the number of cases and deaths is warranted, which would make the public more worry, which would push decision makers not to take a chance.

If you find the above line of reasoning reasonable (which i think you do), then you might see why the current measures are excessive.
Actually I'm a former army medic trained in pandemic management and I think you are out of your depth. You are the poster boy for Dunning Kruger.

Infectious diseases have likely claimed more lives than all wars, noninfectious diseases, and natural disasters put together. If the flu year in America is 30,000 to 60,000dead at 0.1%- 0.2% case fatality rate do the math.
Last edited by Nemo on Sat Mar 07, 2020 9:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
Bundokji
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Re: Corona virus outbreak

Post by Bundokji »

mikenz66 wrote: Sat Mar 07, 2020 6:22 am Have you actually spent time with scientists that work in this area? While I admit that some scientists can seem a little different, dismissing not only experts in disease, but all academics, as not caring about people seems like a rather unwarranted generalization.

It's unclear to me why attitudes like this --- that people who have dedicated their lives to studying something cannot be trusted --- are so pervasive.

In my opinion it's a rather sad situation that feeds into the hands of populist despots.
Many populists rely on conspiracy theories to explain or shed skepticism on things they disagree with. The problem with conspiracy theories is that they imply the existence of some enlightened elites who are smarter than the general populace and who are actively and intentionally working on misleading people in order to maintain and gain more power.

I, on the other hand, don't believe in the existence of such enlightened elites, nor believe that, as a general rule, the world is run in conspiratorial ways (except when there is a strong evidence for it). The world, in my view, is run in a habitual and self fulfilling system where role playing is key.

I don't see the need, or the added value, of introducing conspiracy theories to explain what we call "scientists" behavior, except that its a form of role playing. In the system, phenomena is divided into disciplines or fields of interpretations/expertise, where individuals become more skilled in the technicalities related to their respective fields. While the practicle necessity of dividing phenomena into fields of expertise could mean that individuals within a certain field are more likely to be able to talk about it with more plausibility than average people, it equally means that their interpretation of phenomena is equally likely to be excessive (cognitive biases) simply because they are trained to see it in this particular way, and because their value to the populace is driven by their ability to interpret it as such (hence they are part of the populace, not elites as the term "scientist" would imply).

The article i shared touched on keeping things in perspective, and there are many different ways of doing so. Panic do not seem to be the most conducive way of dealing with the inconveniences of life. More often than not, panic takes the form of inability to deviate from the current state of affairs, as indicated by Namo's previous reply.
"Suppose that a man were to drop a salt crystal into a small amount of water in a cup. What do you think? Would the water in the cup become salty because of the salt crystal, and unfit to drink?"

"Yes, lord. Why is that? There being only a small amount of water in the cup, it would become salty because of the salt crystal, and unfit to drink."

"Now suppose that a man were to drop a salt crystal into the River Ganges. What do you think? Would the water in the River Ganges become salty because of the salt crystal, and unfit to drink?"

"No, lord. Why is that? There being a great mass of water in the River Ganges, it would not become salty because of the salt crystal or unfit to drink."
'Too much knowledge leads to scepticism. Early devotees are the likeliest apostates, as early sinners are senile saints.' – Will Durant.
Bundokji
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Re: Corona virus outbreak

Post by Bundokji »

Nemo wrote: Sat Mar 07, 2020 8:50 am Actually I'm a former army medic trained in pandemic management and I think you are out of your depth. You are the poster boy for Dunning Kruger.
And how does appealing to your authority as a former army medic trained in pandemic management answers the reasoning i presented on why the current reaction is excessive?
'Too much knowledge leads to scepticism. Early devotees are the likeliest apostates, as early sinners are senile saints.' – Will Durant.
Nemo
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Re: Corona virus outbreak

Post by Nemo »

Bundokji wrote: Sat Mar 07, 2020 9:09 am
Nemo wrote: Sat Mar 07, 2020 8:50 am Actually I'm a former army medic trained in pandemic management and I think you are out of your depth. You are the poster boy for Dunning Kruger.
And how does appealing to your authority as a former army medic trained in pandemic management answers the reasoning i presented on why the current reaction is excessive?
I've watched people die of infectious diseases and understand the logistics of what comes next once our just in time ragged edge medical system breaks down. You are clearly some spoiled first world brat who has never seen random people drop dead from infectious disease. On our current trajectory many people will needlessly die because of a lack of preparation. You seem to confuse preparing for a crisis with panicking. The current level of preparation is completely inadequate. Disease rates are exponential. Like in science class when the germs double in the test tube every hour. It still looks empty 1 hour before it overflows. Do you not care because you think it won't affect you personally?
Bundokji
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Re: Corona virus outbreak

Post by Bundokji »

Nemo wrote: Sat Mar 07, 2020 9:14 am I've watched people die of infectious diseases and understand the logistics of what comes next once our just in time ragged edge medical system breaks down. You are clearly some spoiled first world brat who has never seen random people drop dead from infectious disease.
Wrong. I in fact belong to developing nations where people are assumingly much less spoiled. Surprisingly, this is what i shared on my Facebook yesterday:
There is something more to the Covid-19 panic. It is the latest phenomenon to fulfil a weird and growing appetite for doom among the populations of developed countries. We are living in the healthiest, most peaceful time in history, yet we cannot seem to accept it. We constantly have to invent bogeymen, from climate alarmism, nuclear war and financial collapse to deadly diseases. Covid-19 has achieved such traction because it has emerged at just the right time. At the end of January, Brexit had just been completed without incident. The standoff between the US and Iran — which preposterously led the ‘Doomsday Clock’ to be advanced closer to midnight than during the Cuban missile crisis — fizzled into nothing. The Australian bush fires, which caused an explosion in climate doom-mongering (even though the global incidence of wildfires has fallen over the past two decades) had largely gone out. What more was there to worry about?
https://beta.spectator.co.uk/article/Th ... OG2_dxgXXY
On our current trajectory many people will needlessly die because of a lack of preparation.


Could you provide examples of people dying purposefully?
You seem to confuse preparing for a crisis with panicking.
Declaring a crisis is the act of bringing the status quo into attention:
Fully worn out is this body, a nest of disease, and fragile. This foul mass breaks up, for death is the end of life.
'Too much knowledge leads to scepticism. Early devotees are the likeliest apostates, as early sinners are senile saints.' – Will Durant.
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