Top 10 chess players of all-time

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Top 10 chess players of all-time

Post by DNS »

Several years ago, way back in 2010 I made a list of the top 10 chess players of all-time, just for fun. And then posted it on DWT and Dhamma Wiki. DWT no longer allows lounge type topics, so I'm posting my update to that page here.

https://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=5148

Recently I found out that FIDE (International Chess Federation) officially recognized and endorsed Chess 960!!!!

This is fabulous news, if you're a chess nerd or uber-geek with chess, like me. :ugeek:
If not, this is probably of no interest to you, which is fine.

Chess 960, also known as Fischer Random Chess, has the back rows randomly placed, eliminating opening theories. It is very similar to the chess variant I created:
www.d-chess.com

Therefore, I decided to update my top 10 list, giving some greater weight to champions of Chess 960. From 1996 to 2018 some unofficial championship events were held. Magnus Carlsen won the event in 2018.

In November 2019 Wesley So defeated Carlsen in the first official (FIDE recognized) event.

Check out the updates I made to the Top 25 list. The big change is Carlsen moving from number 12 to number 4. And Fischer moving from number 4 to number 2 considering the success of his variant, Chess 960.

https://www.dhammawiki.com/index.php?ti ... f_all_time

How is this Dharma related? See also: The Zen of Chess

And besides that, this is the Lounge. :tongue:
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Re: Top 10 chess players of all-time

Post by Nicholas »

Rumor has it that you just might be able to sneak your Chess stuff into Dhamma Alumni over at DWT.

How is the back row made truly random?

I would guess human's strength in 960 against a computer is much superior than regular chess?
Dhamma is against the stream of common thought, deep, subtle, difficult, delicate, unseen by passion’s slaves cloaked in the murk of ignorance. Vipassī Buddha
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Re: Top 10 chess players of all-time

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Nicholas wrote: Wed Dec 23, 2020 2:13 am How is the back row made truly random?
Dice or cards or some other random method. In Chess 960 the back row position for white is the same position for black, so equal position no matter how weird it might look (compared to regular chess).
I would guess human's strength in 960 against a computer is much superior than regular chess?
Yes, I think so. In regular chess, it has become almost all rote memory of the tried-and-true opening moves that have proven to work. A computer has a much better "memory" than we humans. In variants like Chess 960 you have to use real chess skills, strategy, and creativity.
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Re: Top 10 chess players of all-time

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DNS wrote: Wed Dec 23, 2020 2:33 am
Nicholas wrote: Wed Dec 23, 2020 2:13 am How is the back row made truly random?
Dice or cards or some other random method. In Chess 960 the back row position for white is the same position for black, so equal position no matter how weird it might look (compared to regular chess).
I would guess human's strength in 960 against a computer is much superior than regular chess?
Yes, I think so. In regular chess, it has become almost all rote memory of the tried-and-true opening moves that have proven to work. A computer has a much better "memory" than we humans. In variants like Chess 960 you have to use real chess skills, strategy, and creativity.

Do you think that 960 will replace regular Chess in another 20 years? Suppose the rules are a bit different regarding castleing & maybe other things?

This site suggests not cards or dice but picking from these Bishop & King-Queen options.

https://computerchess.com/en/how-to-play-chess960/
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Re: Top 10 chess players of all-time

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Nicholas wrote: Wed Dec 23, 2020 2:42 am This site suggests not cards or dice but picking from these Bishop & King-Queen options.

https://computerchess.com/en/how-to-play-chess960/
Yes, something like that would work too.
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Re: Top 10 chess players of all-time

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Nicholas wrote: Wed Dec 23, 2020 2:42 am Do you think that 960 will replace regular Chess in another 20 years? Suppose the rules are a bit different regarding castleing & maybe other things?
I hope so! Historically, chess has undergone some changes, it's just the last five to six hundred years that chess players and organizations have been too stubborn to change. But now we are starting to see the move in the next stage of evolution, with Chess 960, officially FIDE accepted.
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Re: Top 10 chess players of all-time

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Here is Bobby Fischer, complaining about chess and advocating for Chess 960:



The video was made just a few years before his passing away.
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Re: Top 10 chess players of all-time

Post by Miorita »

What exactly bothers you when you play traditional chess, doctor?

Do you really believe what he says about creativity that it does not count that much? And of all the other things?
I don't believe one word of his unless there's an idea that he tries explicitly to relay to others.
If he explained to you everything, the way he plays, what good would it be for you? It would stump your growth, and secondly, he will lose to you.
It's an obvious counterexample of what one should not do.
I will do more of the interview tomorrow. Good nite for now!
Last edited by Miorita on Wed Dec 23, 2020 4:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Top 10 chess players of all-time

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Miorita wrote: Wed Dec 23, 2020 4:02 am What exactly bothers you when you play traditional chess, doctor?
Too much emphasis on opening theories and memorization of these systems. The winning player is often the one with better memory, not necessarily the one who is really better at chess.
If he explained to you everything, the way he plays, what good would it be for you? It would stump your growth, and secondly, he will lose to you.
If Bobby Fischer were still alive and explained everything about the way he plays, I am certain he would not lose to me. :lol:
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Re: Top 10 chess players of all-time

Post by Miorita »

The Fischer random is like training wheels for the real chess.
You need to achieve fluid intelligence by using the training wheels.
The purpose is not Fischer random, the purpose is to teach you to play the real chess. He is providing you a platform called Fischer random, which is illusory or temporary, with a double purpose in mind. First, to remove the people who are blockheads and do what they learned by rote, and then to stimulate your creativity, to bring the talented people to play the normal chess.

Note
When you play normal chess, you are like in a fortress, with all bridges up, all organized, protected one with other and keeping tight.
By loosening the back row, he provides you with a larger container where you could learn to swim, integrate both, left and right, creativity with reasoning. He trains you.
To start the game, you have to open. And this means to be aggressive. But the container is still there if you want because the platform is not a platform to play chess, but a platform for your mind to reach that fluid intelligence he wants to see in you.

I guess it's a better idea than watching what you can get off of someone else because that is not talent, that is theory. :P
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Re: Top 10 chess players of all-time

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