What is this anti vacination movement about?

Applying the Dharma to social justice issues – race, religion, sexuality and identity
User avatar
Nicholas
Posts: 567
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2018 6:07 pm

Re: What is this anti vacination movement about?

Post by Nicholas »

Animals are still the favored source for human vaccines...
STOCKHOLM – Scientists in Sweden are hoping an alpaca named Tyson can help deliver a knockout blow in the fight to develop a treatment or vaccine against the novel coronavirus that has killed nearly 400,000 people worldwide.

After immunizing Tyson, a 12 year-old alpaca in Germany, with virus proteins, the team at the Karolinska Institute have isolated tiny antibodies – known as nanobodies – from his blood that bind to the same part of the virus as human antibodies and could block the infection.

They hope this can form the basis of a treatment for COVID 19 or eventually a vaccine against it, though the work is at an early stage.

“We know that it is the antibodies that are directed to the same very, very precise part of the virus that are important and that is what we have engineered with this antibody from Tyson,” Gerald McInerney, head of the team at Karolinska said.

“In principle, all the evidence would suggest it will work very well in humans, but it is a very complex system.”

Llamas and other members of camel family – as well as sharks – are known to produce nanobodies, which are far smaller than the full-size antibodies produced by humans, and therefore potentially easier for scientists to work with.
My emphasis added
Dhamma is against the stream of common thought, deep, subtle, difficult, delicate, unseen by passion’s slaves cloaked in the murk of ignorance. Vipassī Buddha
User avatar
Ceisiwr
Posts: 105
Joined: Wed May 22, 2019 7:15 pm

Re: What is this anti vacination movement about?

Post by Ceisiwr »

Nicholas wrote: Fri Jun 05, 2020 10:58 pm Animals are still the favored source for human vaccines...
STOCKHOLM – Scientists in Sweden are hoping an alpaca named Tyson can help deliver a knockout blow in the fight to develop a treatment or vaccine against the novel coronavirus that has killed nearly 400,000 people worldwide.

After immunizing Tyson, a 12 year-old alpaca in Germany, with virus proteins, the team at the Karolinska Institute have isolated tiny antibodies – known as nanobodies – from his blood that bind to the same part of the virus as human antibodies and could block the infection.

They hope this can form the basis of a treatment for COVID 19 or eventually a vaccine against it, though the work is at an early stage.

“We know that it is the antibodies that are directed to the same very, very precise part of the virus that are important and that is what we have engineered with this antibody from Tyson,” Gerald McInerney, head of the team at Karolinska said.

“In principle, all the evidence would suggest it will work very well in humans, but it is a very complex system.”

Llamas and other members of camel family – as well as sharks – are known to produce nanobodies, which are far smaller than the full-size antibodies produced by humans, and therefore potentially easier for scientists to work with.
My emphasis added
Animals are used in all medical research, for drugs and genetics at least.
User avatar
Nicholas
Posts: 567
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2018 6:07 pm

Re: What is this anti vacination movement about?

Post by Nicholas »

Cautions and suspicions about vaccines are only part of the health freedom movement. It is also about rigid control of peoples' health decisions by overlords in science, government and drug companies.
So herbalists, homeopaths, naturopaths, ayurvedists etc. should not be automatically fined or jailed for "practicing medicine without a license". The laws around licensing of healers are too rigid and self-serving of the status quo.
Dhamma is against the stream of common thought, deep, subtle, difficult, delicate, unseen by passion’s slaves cloaked in the murk of ignorance. Vipassī Buddha
User avatar
Ceisiwr
Posts: 105
Joined: Wed May 22, 2019 7:15 pm

Re: What is this anti vacination movement about?

Post by Ceisiwr »

Nicholas wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 3:25 pm Cautions and suspicions about vaccines are only part of the health freedom movement. It is also about rigid control of peoples' health decisions by overlords in science, government and drug companies.
So herbalists, homeopaths, naturopaths, ayurvedists etc. should not be automatically fined or jailed for "practicing medicine without a license". The laws around licensing of healers are too rigid and self-serving of the status quo.
They should however be made to make it clear that such treatments have no scientific evidence to support their medicinal claims, and that patients are strongly advised to seek out mainstream medical advice and treatment for their ailments. It would be morally wrong for a homeopathist to advertise his woo as being a cure for cancer.
User avatar
Nicholas
Posts: 567
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2018 6:07 pm

Re: What is this anti vacination movement about?

Post by Nicholas »

Ceisiwr wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 5:54 pm
Nicholas wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 3:25 pm Cautions and suspicions about vaccines are only part of the health freedom movement. It is also about rigid control of peoples' health decisions by overlords in science, government and drug companies.
So herbalists, homeopaths, naturopaths, ayurvedists etc. should not be automatically fined or jailed for "practicing medicine without a license". The laws around licensing of healers are too rigid and self-serving of the status quo.
They should however be made to make it clear that such treatments have no scientific evidence to support their medicinal claims, and that patients are strongly advised to seek out mainstream medical advice and treatment for their ailments. It would be morally wrong for a homeopathist to advertise his woo as being a cure for cancer.
If you ever read the labels on supplements, or noticed similar notices (in USA at least) from alternative healers, they all have something like "no medical claims are being made and do not avoid treatments from conventional medicine."

By the by, my late wife and I used a homeopath/MD (yes they do exist) and his "woo" (or placebo as you would say) has helped in many ways. Conventional medicine is also used.
Dhamma is against the stream of common thought, deep, subtle, difficult, delicate, unseen by passion’s slaves cloaked in the murk of ignorance. Vipassī Buddha
User avatar
Ceisiwr
Posts: 105
Joined: Wed May 22, 2019 7:15 pm

Re: What is this anti vacination movement about?

Post by Ceisiwr »

Nicholas
If you ever read the labels on supplements, or noticed similar notices (in USA at least) from alternative healers, they all have something like "no medical claims are being made and do not avoid treatments from conventional medicine."
I'm well aware. Lets keep it that way.
User avatar
Nicholas
Posts: 567
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2018 6:07 pm

Re: What is this anti vacination movement about?

Post by Nicholas »

Another example of so-called science killing folks with a vaccine:

https://21stcenturywire.com/2020/09/04/ ... in-africa/
Dhamma is against the stream of common thought, deep, subtle, difficult, delicate, unseen by passion’s slaves cloaked in the murk of ignorance. Vipassī Buddha
User avatar
Ceisiwr
Posts: 105
Joined: Wed May 22, 2019 7:15 pm

Re: What is this anti vacination movement about?

Post by Ceisiwr »

Nicholas wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 9:17 pm Another example of so-called science killing folks with a vaccine:

https://21stcenturywire.com/2020/09/04/ ... in-africa/
Not quite as simplistic as that:
What is vaccine-derived polio?
Oral polio vaccine (OPV) contains an attenuated (weakened) vaccine-virus, activating an immune response in the body. When a child is immunized with OPV, the weakened vaccine-virus replicates in the intestine for a limited period, thereby developing immunity by building up antibodies. During this time, the vaccine-virus is also excreted. In areas of inadequate sanitation, this excreted vaccine-virus can spread in the immediate community (and this can offer protection to other children through ‘passive’ immunization), before eventually dying out.

On rare occasions, if a population is seriously under-immunized, an excreted vaccine-virus can continue to circulate for an extended period of time. The longer it is allowed to survive, the more genetic changes it undergoes. In very rare instances, the vaccine-virus can genetically change into a form that can paralyse – this is what is known as a circulating vaccine-derived poliovirus (cVDPV).

It takes a long time for a cVDPV to occur. Generally, the strain will have been allowed to circulate in an un- or under-immunized population for a period of at least 12 months. Circulating VDPVs occur when routine or supplementary immunization activities (SIAs) are poorly conducted and a population is left susceptible to poliovirus, whether from vaccine-derived or wild poliovirus. Hence, the problem is not with the vaccine itself, but low vaccination coverage. If a population is fully immunized, they will be protected against both vaccine-derived and wild polioviruses.

Since 2000, more than 10 billion doses of OPV have been administered to nearly 3 billion children worldwide. As a result, more than 13 million cases of polio have been prevented, and the disease has been reduced by more than 99%. During that time, 24 cVDPV outbreaks occurred in 21 countries, resulting in fewer than 760 VDPV cases.

Until 2015, over 90% of cVDPV cases were due to the type 2 component in OPV. With the transmission of wild poliovirus type 2 already successfully interrupted since 1999, in April 2016 a switch was implemented from trivalent OPV to bivalent OPV in routine immunization programmes. The removal of the type 2 component of OPV is associated with significant public health benefits, including a reduction of the risk of cases of cVDPV2.

The small risk of cVDPVs pales in significance to the tremendous public health benefits associated with OPV. Every year, hundreds of thousands of cases due to wild polio virus are prevented. Well over 10 million cases have been averted since large-scale administration of OPV began 20 years ago.

Circulating VDPVs in the past have been rapidly stopped with 2–3 rounds of high-quality immunization campaigns. The solution is the same for all polio outbreaks: immunize every child several times with the oral vaccine to stop polio transmission, regardless of the origin of the virus.
https://www.who.int/westernpacific/news ... ived-polio

Any medical procedure carries risks, even taking an aspirin.
User avatar
Nicholas
Posts: 567
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2018 6:07 pm

Re: What is this anti vacination movement about?

Post by Nicholas »

The frequency and amount of vaccinations that children get nowadays is far higher than 50 years ago. Yet the USA has the highest infant mortality rate among first world nations. (Save repeating correlation does not mean causation meme)

http://dangersofvaccines.com
Dhamma is against the stream of common thought, deep, subtle, difficult, delicate, unseen by passion’s slaves cloaked in the murk of ignorance. Vipassī Buddha
User avatar
Nicholas
Posts: 567
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2018 6:07 pm

Re: What is this anti vacination movement about?

Post by Nicholas »

A useful site in USA - hopefully adverse vaccine reactions will continue to be few.

https://vaers.hhs.gov/index.html
Dhamma is against the stream of common thought, deep, subtle, difficult, delicate, unseen by passion’s slaves cloaked in the murk of ignorance. Vipassī Buddha
Miorita
Posts: 393
Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2020 4:40 pm

Re: What is this anti vacination movement about?

Post by Miorita »

I don't think the Aghori care of your vaccine.
Why do you mention it?
Archie2009
Posts: 105
Joined: Wed Jul 22, 2020 12:42 pm

Re: What is this anti vacination movement about?

Post by Archie2009 »

Image
User avatar
Nicholas
Posts: 567
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2018 6:07 pm

Re: What is this anti vacination movement about?

Post by Nicholas »

CDC on messenger RNA vaccines:

"mRNA vaccines are a new type of vaccine to protect against infectious diseases. To trigger an immune response, many vaccines put a weakened or inactivated germ into our bodies. Not mRNA vaccines. Instead, they teach our cells how to make a protein—or even just a piece of a protein—that triggers an immune response inside our bodies. That immune response, which produces antibodies, is what protects us from getting infected if the real virus enters our bodies."

So in theory RNA vaccines are safe & effective. Whether medical science will "teach" our cells via a three step process better than nature remains to be seen.
Dhamma is against the stream of common thought, deep, subtle, difficult, delicate, unseen by passion’s slaves cloaked in the murk of ignorance. Vipassī Buddha
User avatar
Nicholas
Posts: 567
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2018 6:07 pm

Re: What is this anti vacination movement about?

Post by Nicholas »

The path free of suffering is not that of science:

https://www.usmessageboard.com/threads/ ... da.872591/
Dhamma is against the stream of common thought, deep, subtle, difficult, delicate, unseen by passion’s slaves cloaked in the murk of ignorance. Vipassī Buddha
User avatar
SethRich
Posts: 875
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:57 pm

Re: What is this anti vacination movement about?

Post by SethRich »

Greetings,

I'm not anti-vaccination, but I am against mandatory vaccination.

:candle:
"He goes to hell, the one who asserts what didn’t take place" (Ud 4.8)
"Let us neither be perpetrators nor victims!" (DN26)

"Transition to greatness" (Donald J. Trump)

:candle: "...his name was Seth Rich..."
Mrs Malaprop
Posts: 15
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2020 3:03 pm

Re: What is this anti vacination movement about?

Post by Mrs Malaprop »

KathyLauren wrote: Sun May 31, 2020 10:38 pm Years ago, a "scientific" paper was published linking several common vaccines to autism. No such link has ever been found by other researchers, and that paper was later proved to be fraudulent. Not just wrong, but intentionally wrong.

However, it was seized upon by some people as justification for refusing to vaccinate their children.

Om mani padme hum
Kathy
Anti-vaxers are mostly irresponsible attention-seekers in my experience.
Mrs Malaprop
Posts: 15
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2020 3:03 pm

Re: What is this anti vacination movement about?

Post by Mrs Malaprop »

SethRich wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 3:59 am Greetings,

.... I am against mandatory vaccination.

:candle:
Me too. But I'm also against the corrosive misinformation and scare stories disseminated by anti-vaxers. Like most conspiracy types, they seem stuck in a sort of perpetual adolescent rebellion and narcissism.
User avatar
Nicholas
Posts: 567
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2018 6:07 pm

Re: What is this anti vaccination movement about?

Post by Nicholas »

Solid, understandable points why some are weary of lockdowns & wary of vaccinations - on moral, individual & health grounds.

Dhamma is against the stream of common thought, deep, subtle, difficult, delicate, unseen by passion’s slaves cloaked in the murk of ignorance. Vipassī Buddha
User avatar
SethRich
Posts: 875
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:57 pm

Re: What is this anti vacination movement about?

Post by SethRich »

Greetings,
Mrs Malaprop wrote: Fri Jan 29, 2021 3:03 pm
SethRich wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 3:59 am Greetings,

.... I am against mandatory vaccination.

:candle:
Me too. But I'm also against the corrosive misinformation and scare stories disseminated by anti-vaxers. Like most conspiracy types, they seem stuck in a sort of perpetual adolescent rebellion and narcissism.
All the more reason for "anti-vax" and whatever the "pro-choice" equivalent is, to be clearly delineated and differentiated.

After all, the notion of pro-choice as it relates to abortion, doesn't automatically make someone anti-baby... likewise with vaccines.

:candle:
"He goes to hell, the one who asserts what didn’t take place" (Ud 4.8)
"Let us neither be perpetrators nor victims!" (DN26)

"Transition to greatness" (Donald J. Trump)

:candle: "...his name was Seth Rich..."
Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 51 guests