What is this anti vacination movement about?

Applying the Dharma to social justice issues – race, religion, sexuality and identity
Miorita
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Re: What is this anti vacination movement about?

Post by Miorita »

Nicholas wrote: Sat Apr 03, 2021 4:18 pm Here is an informative site for health related news about Big Gov, Big Pharma etc. The news does not always favor the Biggies:

https://childrenshealthdefense.org/defe ... vaers-cdc/
Uh-huh!

:idea:
https://wordpress.com/create/
Miorita
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Re: What is this anti vacination movement about?

Post by Miorita »

When someone is asking of me,
Ask Congress to Investigate COVID Origins and Government Response to Pandemic
it's about something that I care not answer for they can do it themselves.
Since they have the power to print their request, it's also within their power to ask themselves that "little request" they ask of me.
It is manipulation! And I do not agree with it.
chownah
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Re: What is this anti vacination movement about?

Post by chownah »

Nicholas wrote: Sat Apr 03, 2021 4:18 pm Here is an informative site for health related news about Big Gov, Big Pharma etc. The news does not always favor the Biggies:

https://childrenshealthdefense.org/defe ... vaers-cdc/
Here is the wikipedia article on childrens health defense
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children% ... th_Defense
Note that the article reports of 50,861 patients reporting on symptoms after receiving a covid vaccine.....but only 2,249 died and only 7,726 were considered to be serious......lots of the reports were things like a headache or tingling sensation or upset stomach etc. but of course some were more serious....you can see the reports here https://www.medalerts.org/vaersdb/findf ... AX=COVID19.

Do remember that these reports had not been investigated at the time of the writing of the article so it has not been established whether the deaths (for instance) could reasonably be attributed to the vaccine and with respect to this it is especially important to note that the average age of the 2,249 who died was 77.7 years......... and the youngest was 18 years; it seems that this article has little to do with defending children's health and more to do with some broader agenda (which might be found in the wikipedia article I mention above).
chownah
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Nicholas
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Re: What is this anti vacination movement about?

Post by Nicholas »

Reading the About section or this link below explains best the mission of the site by those who run it:

https://childrenshealthdefense.org/abou ... hat-we-do/

The link begins with...
The Children’s Health Defense Team is devoted to the health of people and our planet. Our mission is to end the childhood health epidemics by working aggressively to eliminate harmful exposures, hold those responsible accountable, and establish safeguards so this never happens again.

We do what we do for many reasons. Some of us have children who have been injured. Some of us have seen an injustice and feel the need to step in where others fear to tread. Some of us are focused on the demand for scientific integrity, others on improving the health of this, and future, generations. Some of us are eager to help any way we can. But the one thing we all share is our passionate belief that we have public health policies and practices that are harming our children. For the future good health of our children and planet, we call for more research and transparency. Read our personal stories below and join our movement.
Dhamma is against the stream of common thought, deep, subtle, difficult, delicate, unseen by passion’s slaves cloaked in the murk of ignorance. Vipassī Buddha
Miorita
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Re: What is this anti vacination movement about?

Post by Miorita »

Nicholas wrote: Sun Apr 04, 2021 4:19 pm Reading the About section or this link below explains best the mission of the site by those who run it:

https://childrenshealthdefense.org/abou ... hat-we-do/

The link begins with...
The Children’s Health Defense Team is devoted to the health of people and our planet. Our mission is to end the childhood health epidemics by working aggressively to eliminate harmful exposures, hold those responsible accountable, and establish safeguards so this never happens again.

We do what we do for many reasons. Some of us have children who have been injured. Some of us have seen an injustice and feel the need to step in where others fear to tread. Some of us are focused on the demand for scientific integrity, others on improving the health of this, and future, generations. Some of us are eager to help any way we can. But the one thing we all share is our passionate belief that we have public health policies and practices that are harming our children. For the future good health of our children and planet, we call for more research and transparency. Read our personal stories below and join our movement.
"passionate" - . :lol: , - my :heart: giving it to you
"read" - Noooooooooo!
"join" - . :lol: - It's a No!

Image

He's already taking it on whoever he can find.
Last edited by Miorita on Sun Apr 04, 2021 7:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Nicholas
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Re: What is this anti vacination movement about?

Post by Nicholas »

Ah, the lovely, sarcastic & wise WhatsHerFace edifies us...

Dhamma is against the stream of common thought, deep, subtle, difficult, delicate, unseen by passion’s slaves cloaked in the murk of ignorance. Vipassī Buddha
chownah
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Re: What is this anti vacination movement about?

Post by chownah »

Nicholas wrote: Sun Apr 04, 2021 4:19 pm Reading the About section or this link below explains best the mission of the site by those who run it:

https://childrenshealthdefense.org/abou ... hat-we-do/

The link begins with...
The Children’s Health Defense Team is devoted to the health of people and our planet. Our mission is to end the childhood health epidemics by working aggressively to eliminate harmful exposures, hold those responsible accountable, and establish safeguards so this never happens again.

We do what we do for many reasons. Some of us have children who have been injured. Some of us have seen an injustice and feel the need to step in where others fear to tread. Some of us are focused on the demand for scientific integrity, others on improving the health of this, and future, generations. Some of us are eager to help any way we can. But the one thing we all share is our passionate belief that we have public health policies and practices that are harming our children. For the future good health of our children and planet, we call for more research and transparency. Read our personal stories below and join our movement.
I'm sure they have many reasons for what they do just as they state. I'm just trying to show the propogandistic quality of their name which is "The Children's Health Defense Team" and how it really does not adequately express the many reason for what they do but rather is a play for a kind of sympathy for chidren or for the warm and fuzzy association it creates....I'm surprised they didn't name it "The Children Playing with Really Cute Puppies and Waiting for Mom to Bring Them Some Apple Pie Health Defense Team"....but if they named it that it would make their banner unwieldy I guess....

Most knowledgeable people wanting to defend children's health are actively making vaccines more readily available.....I support the presenting of truthful facts presented without bias and the enabling of parents to make their own decisions about vaccinations....(enabling the parents includes informing them of the truthful and unbiased facts and making the vaccinations available)
chownah
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Nicholas
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Re: What is this anti vacination movement about?

Post by Nicholas »

chownah dislikes "propagandistic quality". That is a point, subjective & sectarian of course. Disliking is also a favored way to ignore content and judge a book or website by its cover.

Dhamma Wheel Engaged is a "nonsectarian community" - suppose those are misleading propaganda terms too; for modern Buddhists follow nothing - thus are non-sectarians.
Dhamma is against the stream of common thought, deep, subtle, difficult, delicate, unseen by passion’s slaves cloaked in the murk of ignorance. Vipassī Buddha
chownah
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Re: What is this anti vacination movement about?

Post by chownah »

You really don't understand me at all. I like propagandist qualities in that it is by understanding them that one can see cearly who is a propagandist. Having dealt with the first sentence of your post I just want to point out that the rest of what you say is really really meaningless with respect to my previous post.....looks like you are trying to get some kind of traction.....and not finding any.....

Anyway, I don't object to anyone not taking a vaccine in any circumstance......as to parents not allowing their children to be vaccinated I'm much more reluctant to not object and I think that for me it depends on the exact situation.

If there was a pandemic similar to smallpox that arose and was killing hundreds of millions of people and entire communities were dieing and a parent refused to let their child be vaccinated and the child died from the disease should the parents be held legally responsible? Some people say that you should not hold the parents responsible for the death of their child....others reply that if the parents are not responsible for the death of their child then those parents should not be given the responsibility of determining if their child should be vaccinated....and some go further to say that the facts for smallpox like pandemics are that there is an exceedingly high probability of a child dieing from lack of a vaccination compared to the probability of a child dieing from having a vaccination.

The rights of parents over their children is a difficult thing to find consensus on....where the line is drawn is different for different people and there will never be agreement on it.....thats what this antivax children's movement is about with respect to children.....except for propagandists who try to make yardage in other narrative which they piggyback onto this children wedge.

ONe last thing, did you see how the data given in their article was actually not painting a very dire picture of dangers of the vaccinations?....basically they tried to make it sound bad but in fact if looked at closely it can be seen that it really is unimpressive.....if you want to stop slinging around your misconceptions of me and instead discuss just what is presented in the article I would most likely join in and help with the analysis....but I doubt that you would like to do that in that it would likely show that the emperor has no clothes....
chownah
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Nicholas
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Re: What is this anti vacination movement about?

Post by Nicholas »

chownah wrote: Mon Apr 05, 2021 3:18 pm You really don't understand me at all.
News Flash -- Written words on a screen do not foster understanding between folks. Even if we knew each other personally for years, full understanding of another is not likely. I do not even grok the depths of Nicholas fully. :smile:

So never mind your pity party.

Just be Very cautious about the trusting the pandemic vaccines.
Dhamma is against the stream of common thought, deep, subtle, difficult, delicate, unseen by passion’s slaves cloaked in the murk of ignorance. Vipassī Buddha
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Nicholas
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Re: What is this anti vacination movement about?

Post by Nicholas »

Image
Dhamma is against the stream of common thought, deep, subtle, difficult, delicate, unseen by passion’s slaves cloaked in the murk of ignorance. Vipassī Buddha
chownah
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Re: What is this anti vacination movement about?

Post by chownah »

INdeed any new medical intervention is human experiment and this is the way it has been since the beginning of medicine.......and so far this experiment seems to be going very well.....I am no expert but from what I can tell the results have been very acceptable in that the reduction in loss of life and suffering is very high while the loss of life and suffering precipitated by the vaccine is typically low......

I invite anyone who wants to discuss the data given in The CHildren's Health Defense article to post your point of interest.....I have invited nicholas to enter into discussion and am not surprised that he has not done so in that I think that a thoughtful discussion would not support his narrative.

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Nicholas
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Re: What is this anti vacination movement about?

Post by Nicholas »

Dhamma is against the stream of common thought, deep, subtle, difficult, delicate, unseen by passion’s slaves cloaked in the murk of ignorance. Vipassī Buddha
chownah
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Re: What is this anti vacination movement about?

Post by chownah »

Yeah, it great that the website informs us of the way that health authorities have identified the dangers of the astra zeneca vaccine and are withdrawing its use.....

Some of the stuff the website presents is not well supported....I don't have the time to run down the veracity of those things.....the site (and the owner named Shilavey I think) have a reputation and I'll leave it up to others to decide what they think about that reputation...
chownah
chownah
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Re: What is this anti vacination movement about?

Post by chownah »

Here is some more information about the astrazanaca vaccine:
UPDATE 1-EU drug regulator: 169 cases of rare brain blood clot out of 34 mln AstraZeneca doses in region
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/1-eu-dru ... 26384.html
Excerpt:
EMA executive director Emer Cooke said the risk of dying from COVID was "much greater" than the risk of mortality from rare side effects.

"It is very important that we use the vaccines we have to try and beat this pandemic," she said.

Straus said side-effects were not unexpected as vaccines were rolled out on a large scale.
If you want to comparison shop for a covid vaccine then you should find out the prevelance of serious side effects of the various vaccines which you can choose from. 169 cases of thrombosis from 34,000,000 doses given is a very very small percentage (less than 0.0005%).....that is about 1 in 200,000 which is about the same chances of having conjoined twins....from what I could find (there seems to be a lot of variabiity in the data reported on line) this is in the same ballpark as being struck by lightning....it is also in the same ballpark as death from cosmetic surgery which is estimated at 1 in 50,000.....
chownah
chownah
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Re: What is this anti vacination movement about?

Post by chownah »

chownah wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 4:26 pm Here is some more information about the astrazanaca vaccine:
UPDATE 1-EU drug regulator: 169 cases of rare brain blood clot out of 34 mln AstraZeneca doses in region
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/1-eu-dru ... 26384.html
Excerpt:
EMA executive director Emer Cooke said the risk of dying from COVID was "much greater" than the risk of mortality from rare side effects.

"It is very important that we use the vaccines we have to try and beat this pandemic," she said.

Straus said side-effects were not unexpected as vaccines were rolled out on a large scale.
If you want to comparison shop for a covid vaccine then you should find out the prevelance of serious side effects of the various vaccines which you can choose from. 169 cases of thrombosis from 34,000,000 doses given is a very very small percentage (less than 0.0005%).....that is about 1 in 200,000 which is about the same chances of having conjoined twins....from what I could find (there seems to be a lot of variabiity in the data reported on line) this is in the same ballpark as being struck by lightning....it is also in the same ballpark as death from cosmetic surgery which is estimated at 1 in 50,000.....
chownah
Some new information. From https://news.yahoo.com/europes-covid-19 ... 13030.html
fter studying reactions of the 23 million people in Europe who received the AstraZeneca vaccine as of mid-March, the agency [European Medicines Agency] said 84 had developed blood clots resulting in 18 deaths.
I had assumed that the rare brain blod clots were usually deadly but it seems that only 18 of 84 deaths were reported. If the 169 cases reported above had the same mortality rate then about 37 people out of the 169 would have died....so.....out of 34,000,000 injections there were 37 deaths from the brain blood clots (of course we don't know what lasting disabilities might have struck the other 132 people who had the brain clots). The percent who died for the clots is then 0.0001% or about 1 in one million. The chance of being subject to death by homicide through guns in the usa in 2010 was 0.0036% or about 36 in one million....it looks like a person in the usa who takes an astrazanaca vaccine is in 36 times more likely to be killed with a gun in a homicide than they are to die from a brain blood clot caused by that vaccination.
chownah
P.S. It would be good if someone checked my math....I'm not being very rigorous in my math here.
chownah
Miorita
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Re: What is this anti vacination movement about?

Post by Miorita »

Last edited by DNS on Sat Apr 10, 2021 2:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: personal attacks removed
chownah
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Re: What is this anti vacination movement about?

Post by chownah »

Some more news which those anti vacsers won't report because it undercuts their narrative:
https://science.slashdot.org/story/21/0 ... data-shows
99.992% of Fully Vaccinated People Have Dodged COVID, CDC Data Shows
Cases of COVID-19 are extremely rare among people who are fully vaccinated, according to a new data analysis by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Among more than 75 million fully vaccinated people in the US, just around 5,800 people reported a "breakthrough" infection, in which they became infected with the pandemic coronavirus despite being fully vaccinated. The numbers suggest that breakthroughs occur at the teeny rate of less than 0.008 percent of fully vaccinated people -- and that over 99.992 percent of those vaccinated have not contracted a SARS-CoV-2 infection.
Many anti-vacsers claim that vaccines don't actually work (not all of them make this false claim)....this article really shows how wrong they seem to be at least with the covid vaccines.

I say that it "seems" like this shows the effectiveness of the vaccines but we should remember that it may take time for those vaccinated people to be exposed again but even so consider that so far only 0.008 percent of fully vaccinated people have been infected after vaccination while approximately 10% of the US population has contracted the virus over all......this is a HUGE world of difference......
chownah
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