It seems then that intentionally killing a human being can soonest be done at "the time consciousness first arises in the womb immediately after conception" and not at conception.Dharmasherab wrote: ↑Sat Mar 27, 2021 12:59 pmGo to point number 3 https://www.dhammatalks.org/vinaya/bmc/Section0010.html
Should any bhikkhu intentionally deprive a human being of life, or search for an assassin for him, or praise the advantages of death, or incite him to die (saying): “My good man, what use is this evil, miserable life to you? Death would be better for you than life,” or with such an idea in mind, such a purpose in mind, should in various ways praise the advantages of death or incite him to die, he also is defeated and no longer in affiliation.This rule against intentionally causing the death of a human being is best understood in terms of five factors, all of which must be present for there to be the full offense.
1) Object: a human being, which according to the Vibhaṅga includes human fetuses as well, counting from the time consciousness first arises in the womb immediately after conception up to the time of death.
2) Intention: knowingly, consciously, deliberately, and purposefully wanting to cause that person’s death. “Knowingly” also includes the factor of—
3) Perception: perceiving the person as a living being.
4) Effort: whatever one does with the purpose of causing that person to die.
5) Result: The life-faculty of the person is cut as the result of one’s act.From this it follows that a bhikkhu who intentionally causes an abortion—by arranging for the operation, supplying the medicines, or advising a woman to get an abortion and she follows through—incurs a pārājika. A bhikkhu who encourages a woman to use a means of contraception that works after the point of conception would be guilty of a pārājika if she were to follow his advice.
It seems to some people that if a person does not perceive the fetus as a person who is a living being then one of the factors is missing....note that they say that it is not if a person "suspects" that there is a fetus that exists as a person who is a living being but it is if the person "perceives" that a fetus exists as a person who is a living being.....perception is defined as:
(https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html)"And what is perception? These six classes of perception — perception of form, perception of sound, perception of smell, perception of taste, perception of tactile sensation, perception of ideas: this is called perception.
Some people take from this that it seems that a person must perceive the idea that there is a fetus which is a person who is a living being.....those people think that just having the idea that there might be a fetus which is a person who is a living being does not meet the requirement of the third factor.....of course other people have other views on this....